Talk:Seddie/@comment-5679407-20140711032308/@comment-5679407-20140713070153
@cartoonprincess: I think if it were not for Sam & Cat, Dan may have felt compelled to make a decision regarding the ships. He could've still botched the ending, but Sam & Cat gave him an exit -- he knew he'd be able to lure Seddiers with the prospect of "more Sam and Freddie fun," while also giving Creddiers, I guess the word for it is "closure," at the end of iCarly (knowing that it would be Miranda's last regular appearance.) He wanted to have his cake and eat it, too. To me, it just speaks to the conceit that he maintains. Rather than ending iCarly as a show in its own right, he used it as stepping stool to his other project (Sam & Cat.) I feel bad for both Creddiers and Seddiers. He essentially rewarded five years of patronage and investment with double-talk, "dansplaining," and confused b.s. rationalizations. (This is one of the reasons why I did not bother to watch Sam & Cat, save a couple of episodes.) I understand the temptation to say that Creddie was the intention because it makes sense out of a move that made absolutely no sense. @iEmbargo: "1. Carly's foibles are exactly those that would preclude interest in Freddie. She's popular and normally won't associate with techies and geeks. She is very shallow when it comes with interests in guys - they can't have cute hobbies, for instance. She is very condescending towards Freddie and takes him for granted. As the titular heroine, she should outgrow these by the end of the" '' Carly didn't really associate with anyone outside of the group. But she didn't let her prejudices undermine what she believed was right. For example, in iWin a Date, she agreed to go out with Gibby--who, then, the show played off as a nerd--because she thought it would help him get a date with someone who mimics her character archetype (nice, pretty, and easygoing.) If she had a bias against techies and geeks associating with those who were her type, why would she help Gibby do just that? In iSpeed Date, once again, she considers asking Gibby to the girl's choice dance until Sam committed her to being courted by a sleuth of Seattle boys. Carly had also expressed interest in Shane, who was played off as a "hot" nerd and techy--given that he was in the A.V. Club with Freddie. Carly has neither belonged to a "mean chick" click, nor has she exemplified a mentality of that sort, so this notion that Carly's conceit in her own popularity would preclude interest in Freddie is just unfounded. I don't disagree that she's shallow -- this has often been played off with levity. But the writiers didn't think of this as a serious flaw -- again, not much attention was paid to any serious elements of her romantic life -- and have exploited her failures for many laughs. I also agree that she could be condescending -- not just to Freddie. But this characteristic served her role as the moral center of the group, so she was going to be judgemental. ''"2. I apologise for being confusing about the actor and actress points. Of course, Nathan Kress is the lead male. That makes Nathan Kress's character and Miranda Cosgrove's character the default pairing. Of course, that would make the age-appropriate paring for the Sam character to be Gibby, which is borderline ludicrous." It's a bit of a moot point, since one can argue that Spencer was the lead male character. Also convention often breaks with the surge of breakout characters, i.e. Sam & Gibby from iCarly, Steve Urkel from Family Matters, Abed Nadir from Community, Joey Tribioni from Friends, Joey Potter from Dawson's Creek (lead female who ended up with supporting male actor,) etc. There are no defaults; writers tend not to do this as not to pigeonhole themselves and facilitate the expansion of alternate storylines. 3 and 4. - You need make the following distinction: when they drew up the series, I believe that Dan Schneider had Creeddie in his mind. That does not mean that OTHER writers had that in mind. It is clear that other writers knew how to handle the subtleties of their relationship better. And one can say that when they drew up the series, Dan Schneider had Seddie in mind. I'm not saying that you can't believe that Dan had Creddie in his mind, nor am I saying that it's wrong for you to believe it. However, if you're going to make it an argument, you're going to need more than what you thought he intended "at the beginning." It's too abstract. We can only make these arguments in retrospect, not a retroactive prospect. You can't watch iPilot, and argue, "well.. there it is, Creddie was the intention." If iCarly were to have a life that extended beyond a couple of episodes, then it doesn't make sense to argue a "plan," with the first few episodes in mind. "Oh, and here's my Ace of trumps. When Dan Schneider effectively took over total control of the series with iStart a Fan War (production order), he immediately wrote the Seddie arc, had a few transitional episodes, and then dropped Creddie hints the rest of the way. Even the titles were provacative - how does "iRescue Carly" not remind you of "iSaved Your Life"? Even if it is not a Creddie episode, the fact is that you were being conditioned to expect" What Creddie hints? And were there no Seddie hints following the arc? iRescue Carly is as reminiscent of iSaved Your Life as much as iOMG is reminiscent of iShock America. It's speculation. If you wan't to talk about provocative titles, let's the talk about the one's geared for Seddie in relation to Creddie: Creddie: iSaved Your Life Seddie: iKiss iOMG iLost My Mind iDate Sam and Freddie iCan't Take It iLove You The titles that I emboldened are simple yet quite declarative. You'd think that a title like "iKiss" would speak more to a plot involving Carly's experience with kissing, but it did not. It was reserved for Sam and Freddie. An episode titled, "iLove You," would be utilized in serving a narrative involving Carly's love life, if in fact the writers considered exploring it in a serious vein, but they did not. That title, too, was reserved for Sam and Freddie. Coincidence? If Creddie was to be the default, the overarching ship in Dan's intentions, then why were these titles used in Sam and Freddie's romance, not Carly's and Freddie's? "5. If you want the start of the progression towards Freddie, start with iQ. That guy is so obviously uber-Fredde (quick - besides Freddie, name a semi-regular age-appropriate male character whom Carly is friends with who is that smart can't). I do not see anyone from that point on as being Spencer-like - they seem too serious to be like Spencer. On the other hand, far more telling are Miranda Cosgrove's co-stars in her videos who look like Nathan Kress ." You can't argue from both aspects -- is she shallow or is she looking for substance? Trey was nothing like Freddie apart from a stereotyped "geeky" demeanor. And Kyle from iQ, wasn't protrayed as a tech-geek, but more so a sophisticated afficianado. Freddie isn't smart that way. Even Freddie had no idea what Kyle was talking about when he stated that he was going to "ingurgitate their website veraciously." Again, my drawing parallels between Spencer and the guys Carly dated is matter of physical appearance, only. And the one thing that drew Carly to these guys was their appearance. When she first saw Kyle, she said, "Badoing!" And when she saw Trey, she interrupted Freddie and said, "sshh... cute guy, give me that back." How could she have progressed, when her motivation for approaching and engaging guys had not changed?